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There are so many lessons here about the mind of the believer. Enjoy.

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Hi All,

Many of you have probably seen these already, but for those who have not you might be interested in checking out The Atheism Tapes, by Jonathan Miller.  They are available on netflix instant view and include interviews with Colin McGinn, Richard Dawkins, Dan Dennett and some other notable figures in the skeptic community.

Good viewing!

By Agnosticator ~

It can easily be argued (and I am) that American religious cults owe the New Testament for their existence because it contains a blueprint for the cults. The believer is told to focus upon doing God's will, while surrendering his own will, family, and all worldly possessions to God. Next he must separate himself from the "world" by living in a community of believers (see Mt.19:21, 1Thess.3:14, 1Cor.5:9-13, lCor.6:l). So why are we continually shocked and appalled by Christian cults?

Image by LZ Creations via FlickrThe story of Ananias and Sapphira illustrates the importance of this communal life. They sold some of their own land and gave most of the money from its sale to the apostles, to be distributed to anyone who needed it. The married couple made one mistake by lying so as to keep a portion of their own proceeds for themselves. So of course, God struck them dead as an example to anyone who does not obey and give all their possessions to the commune (Acts 5:1-11).

Believers are expected to surrender their independent, rational capacity for thinking-their minds-so God can do his Will through them. But it isn't God's Will to surrender to the leader of the cult. Or is it? Someone has to decide how to follow God every step of the way since the Bible is vague about all the details. God also chooses leaders for the sheep to follow throughout His Holy Book. Since humans are easily manipulated by authority (see Stanley Milgram's "Obedience to Authority"), God's slaves and sheep are in over their heads. Inevitably, followers will pay a price and their tragedies will make the news.

Far from being harmless, Christianity is potentially dangerous both to the believer and to others. By asserting it has the only Truth, and that this Truth must be obeyed, the Bible denigrates truth as a concept. Truth must be verifiable and "of this world" in order to be relevant to our reality. Otherwise, reality itself is denigrated along with it. How we deal with truth proves us to be either in or out of touch with reality, mature or immature, and ignorant or knowledgeable.

When I became a liberal Christian (after my fundagelical phase), I believed that many layers of false, man-made doctrines and beliefs had to be peeled away until the core of God's Truth was uncovered to reveal true Christianity. However, in attempting to do so, I discovered what I had mistaken as being core truths were merely veneer. These texts covered up the more numerous texts that betrayed what was stated by the few humanitarian ones. The veneer was stripped away, ending my Christian walk. These anti-human doctrines cannot be avoided.

Far from being harmless, Christianity is potentially dangerous both to the believer and to others. It is all too easy for church leaders to lead the sheep to slaughter while feeding them Truth which will set them free from this life.

By Mriana ~

The idea of hell, heaven, and eternity are very much a human concept and I going to attempt to show just how they are. A word of warning for people now, concerning what I am about to “show” you: this article maybe difficult to stomach and not meant to be family oriented. However, if you read on, you will see “My Little Box”* that I live in when I have nightmares and waking flashbacks of a “torturous hell.”It is quite a different definition of the Christian hell and is in this life, right here on earth.

Towards the end of 2010, I came out to my mother as a humanist and explained to her why am I not a Christian. The main reason I am not a Christian is that I have studied Christianity, other religions, mythology, philosophy, and psychology. The study of religion and psychology were the big two that helped to deconvert me. My experiences as a Christian, especially as a child, are only minor reasons, but these experiences helped me to define my thoughts concerning heaven, hell, and eternity.

I did not have a choice concerning Christianity as a child. It was either profess to being a Christian or my elders would get very anger. Just expressing my thoughts, as a child, about various Christian concepts was enough to get them upset with me. Not to mention, I was the type of child who would easily break down in tears if I even thought an adult was angry with me. Thus, I went along to get along as not to get into trouble. I was a big people-pleaser, along with suffering from sexual, physical, and emotional by my biological father and spiritual abuse from my Evangelical Fundamentalist relatives. All of this contributed to an eating disorder also and one of the reasons for the Anorexia was because I had little control in my life.

When I was in elementary school, my great uncle could not understand why I would not go up to his altar and “be saved.” I tried to tell him that he scared me, but he denied it and said it was the devil scaring me. I still would not go up to his altar and in an effort to get the adults to stop; I told them I turned my life over to Jesus in private. They seemed to have bought it or at least had little reason to doubt it given that I would cry over things such as the Crucifixion and strived hard to be perfect.

I grew up in Wesleyan theology, so the doctrine of perfectionism was very important, but they had no idea why I did the things I did and even my mother called me “The Best Little Girl in the World,” especially after she saw the movie. Teachers called me “too good” according to my mother. Again, theological reasons were not the number one reason as to why I obeyed my elders. I feared what they would do to me and their enabling of my father’s abuse did not help to change this.

Even when speaking to the therapist, in my 20s, my mother insisted she had no choice about staying with my biological father as long as she did and spewed religious dogmatic ideology. Their divorce was final when I was fourteen, after the State threaten my mother that they would take me from her if she did not leave my father. It was after that my grandfather stated that they had me away from my abuser and that was enough, adding, “God would take care of him.” When I tried to say I wanted to prosecute my father for what he did to me, my grandfather told me anger was a sin and I could see his anger with me in his eyes. Therefore, I back down, in favour of obedience, so he would not get angrier with me. Mind you, this was not obedience to a god though, but obedience out of fear of my elders.

Thirty years later, after telling my mother that I am not a Christian, the current therapist that I am working with has been helping me with my “inner child”. For more on this subject, please see Dr. Marlene Winell’s book, “Leaving the Fold.” After a suggestion she made, I started having nightmares about dolls, both hard and soft ones. In one very vivid nightmare, I dreamed that this hard doll was forcing himself on me, while someone watched, without helping me and with a smile. I could not fight the doll off me and woke up in a cold sweat. I spent days fighting sleep because I did not want the dreams and consequently I cried about almost everything, especially things, both secular and religious, that reminded me of my experiences. What was worse was that I suddenly had this memory, from when I was around five years old, in which I took Ken and raped Barbie, scaring my friend away, never to see her again. Even then, despite the memories before I was seven years old being rare, I could not keep quiet, but no one listened to my cries for help. Either they refused to listen, attempting to silence me, or they disappeared from my life when I tried to say something.

Those experiences were a living hell for me and I have spent a lifetime dealing with flashbacks and nightmares over it, sometimes with the simplest thing triggering them, such as dolls. Until recent years, even some foods, such as a cookie, would trigger flashbacks, because he tried to use such things to entice me to sit on his lap and have his way with me. I was probably a rare child in that I rejected cookies, especially when my father offered one to me. If he was offering me one and I rejected it, he forced me to sit on his lap or be wherever he wanted me to be, just so he could get his own satisfaction.

What is worse, my mother recently admitted she walked in on those times, seeing my father “attack” me, more often than I realized. Her excuse for not doing anything was that she would get hurt and then she would be of little help to me. She was of little help as was, relying on religious ideology and dogma to solve the problem, which did not work. She even stated that she only had two choices- living with her parents or staying with my father. That is what women did, in her view, and she did not want to live with her parents.

When I told her what all that happened to me as a child is my definition of hell, hell on earth, created by humans, she replied, “That’s not hell. Hell is eternal. What happened to you ended, so it’s not hell.” Obviously, she has no comprehension of my definition of eternity either. Such haunting dreams and memories of the past, not just the abuse from my father, but the spiritual abuse of my relatives too, IS eternity and I will admit, during those times, I sometimes think that death is the only way out of that hell. Except for one thing, since I cannot end life myself, I have to wait for death to come to me, but it does not come, not even in my sleep. I wake up, during those episodes, only to face the same haunting memories and dreams again. For me, that is eternal torture and it did not end just because the actual sexual and physical abuse ended.

When I try to explain it all to my mother and that I do not have dreams of hell as she defines it, her response is, “Well, maybe you should be having dreams about hell.” This woman wants her grandsons and me to be Christians so badly, even if it is just words, because she fears not seeing us in her definition of heaven. Again, just as many other Christians, she has no idea that her concepts are only human concepts.

With all of these recent disputes happening between my mother and me, the suggestion from Marlene, concerning using a doll for therapy purposes, seemed to have tipped the scales just enough to trigger nightmares again, of what I define as hell, which lead to crying fits and lack of sleep for a good solid month. Do not get me wrong, I am not blaming Marlene. She did not know what would happen with such a suggestion and I am not sure I did either. All I knew is that the idea was impossible for me, no matter how hard I tried.

In the middle of the night, unable to sleep due to waking in a cold sweat from one of these nightmares about dolls, I sent off a quick email telling her about a couple of these dreams and the waking flashbacks, as well as what I felt was the connection. There was no blame in my email, or at least if she perceived that there was, that was not my intent. I wanted her help, but I was not about to admit, at the time, that I longed for death to come and end the nightmares and flashbacks. Her response was something like, “If it triggers something, then don’t do it.”

I occasionally looked at Muñeca, a doll I received from my aunt before I was born, for weeks, just trying to take Marlene’s suggestion. My aunt got the doll for me during a trip to Mexico just before I was born, thus the name. Occasionally I would pick up Muñeca and fiddle with her dress, only to put her back down again due to painful uneasiness. Memories would flood my mind, including the fact that I eventually gave up actually playing with dolls before I was seven. They would sit beside me as I played school by myself, but I did not actually play with them. Even so, I cannot tell anyone why I have a difficult time with such things, because most of my memories before I was seven are almost non-existent, only coming to me in bits and pieces during times of extreme emotional difficulty.

Not only that, my mother told me stories, when I was little, of a doll that she had growing up, which she prayed to God to make real. After telling me that, many times as a child, she insisted I was that doll, which God caused to come to life. Therefore, in that concept, I was nothing more than an object which others control, except I knew I was a person and people should not be forced into things nor should they be controlled by others either. Unfortunately, I was forced into many things as a child, with not even control over my own body, and try as I might, I could not get any of the adults in my life to listen to me as a child. The only control I had was over my own thoughts, which even those I had to keep to myself, unless I wanted to get in trouble with the adults in my life. I also had control of what I did not eat, thus why I developed anorexia by the time I was eleven.

My mother insisted, in our recent conversations, that was the way it was back then and of course, religious dogma had a lot to do with it. Even my minister great uncle and my grandfather would spew religious dogma and verses at me about obeying my elders, stating I still had to obey my father no matter what. I could not fathom, as a child, why I had to obey a monster or even why a raven would pluck out my eyes and feed them to her young (Proverbs 30:17) or why the days of my life would be short (Deut. 5:16), if I did not. Again, with various verses about obeying one’s elders, I was forced into silence and submission.

My mother also recently admitted that she never once used the word incest when trying to speak to the patriarch about what was happening to us and even she did not think I knew what the word was when I was young. I told her, maybe not, but by the time I was twelve, I knew what a concubine was, because it is in the Bible, and I felt like one as a child. Her response was, “Then you should have used that word when talking to your great uncle and grandfather. That might have gotten their attention.” Somehow, I doubt that it would have.

That is my definition of hell and eternity in painful details. What is my definition of heaven? To me, it too is right here on earth, because this life is what people make it, even for the helpless child that they are suppose to take care of and protect. For me, when I meet another human being who is compassionate, attempts to understand, and tries to help when needed, then that is a taste of heaven here on earth. Such individuals are metaphorically angels, but I do not believe in actual angels as portrayed in the Bible. Thus, Marlene Winell and Valerie Tarico, for example, are angels because they are compassionate people, who try to help others when needed. Thus, I have great respect and appreciation for them or as some would say, “love for them”, but the word “love” is difficult for me say, except to my own children or maybe a lover. I do not easily apply it to others.

When we honestly help others, then we are attempting to create heaven here on earth. This is not some metaphorical external heaven, only experienced after death, but rather one in the here and now. Humans make earth either heaven, hell, or both and their actions can cause an “eternity” of memories, both good and bad. None of my concepts about heaven, hell, or eternity can be applied to any afterlife. They are all in the here and now, created only by humans. Thus, the Christian concepts verses my own concepts are good examples as to how these ideas are nothing more than human concepts. My mother or any other Christian can deny my concepts all they want, but the fact remains that they are all human concepts, right down to the definition of what angels are.

My nightmares about what I consider hell are really no different from those of people who have nightmares about a religious hell. The only differences are that my dreams of “hell” and theirs are a matter of reality, as well as what we define as eternity. Eternity for me is a lifetime and like the nightmares others have of a fictional hell, I am tortured and haunted unmercifully, but from past real life experiences. The other difference is how we are tortured and haunted in our concepts of hell. However, my concept of heaven, it totally different than the Christian view and it is one only humans can create here on earth, with a little effort towards being compassionate towards others and giving mercy, as well as peace, to others who need it.

Until such Christians get into the minds of those who have been abused spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, sexually, and physically, they will never have a clue as to what a real hell actually is. They will also never admit and face the reality that they contribute and enable the abuse themselves, creating a living hell, right here on earth, for others. When they choose to see and examine my Little Box, then they will see the horrors of hell that I live with due to such abuse.

Therefore, dear Christian, do not tell me what hell is. I know what hell is, because I have lived it, and it is not some fictional place, but right here on earth. I also know what eternity is and again, it is not what you conceive it to be. I have also had a taste of what heaven on earth could be, if more human beings would just try to create it with love, compassion, and empathy. For me, such a concept of heaven is very much numinous, but that brings us to another human created concept concerning transcendence, which I might discuss another time, but again, such a concept is very much centered and focused on the human, not something outside ourselves. The same goes for the concept of heaven too. Until the religious face reality, they can have no concept of what I describe, much less what I am referring to when I speak of heaven being here on earth, much less my concept of hell and eternity.

*Note: Reference to Gabriel Mann’s song “My Little Box,” and even a clip of the movie “Ghost Ship,” of which I have not seen, is incidental when I speak of my concept of hell, but a good song that just happens to relate very well. Then again Tracy Chapman’s “Heaven’s Here on Earth” also fits when I talk about my concept of heaven, but it too is incidental and not complete intentional. However, both songs relate very well to what I am conveying.

By Summerbreeze ~

Life can throw us some weird coincidences. I had typed my article "Entering the NO-FUN ZONE" ( about the health benefits of laughter )to Dave on a Monday. Then three days later I flatlined three times in 14 minutes. The day prior to my flatlining I had been outfitted with a cardiac event monitor because of weird squeezing sensations in my chest. (This is a little box that you are wired up to 24/7 & you wear it.)

Image by zerok via FlickrThree Doctors called me in the space of five minutes, telling me that I needed a heart catherization and a pacemaker.

"WHO, ME ?!?"....."I'm too young," I cried to them.

I was horrified and mad. All of a sudden I felt very old... How could someone who was Jr. High School age when she idolized James Dean, Natalie Wood & Ricky Nelson need a pacemaker?!

In a nut-shell, I had the heart catheterization, then the pacemaker surgery. Never during the entire time from beginning to end did I feel the desire, need, or want to pray to a "god" for help.

I had passed the test that I always knew would come some day.

I thought about a quote that I often glided over while reading my "The Atheists Bible"
"Nah, there's no bigger Atheist than me. Well, I take that back. I'm a cancer screening away from going agnostic and a biopsy away from full-fledged Christian."
----Adam Carolla
P.S. -- I still highly endorse laughter to keep us healthy, more than likely if I hadn't done so, so often, I'd be in a lot worse shape.

By JadedAtheist ~

Nailing Jell-O to a Wall

Many people get frustrated with Christians because they always seem to have an “answer” to every problem you present to them. This in their mind seems to prove that their God exists but this is far from the truth as we are all aware. They have a few tricks up their sleeves and one of them might consist of an answer that requires you to prove otherwise. To illustrate this, we can look at a primary example: Jesus’ birth in Luke.

Image by electrobrainpdx via FlickrLuke states that Jesus was born while Herod the Great was ruling AND during the time of Quirinius’ census. Herod died 4BCE but Quirinius’ census was held around 6-7CE. The Christian explanation? Quirinius served an earlier term and held a census at that time as well. Just because we don’t have the evidence for it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen! Prove otherwise!

Then of course we have the “trust God™” answers that so many of us ex-Christians detest with a passion. It doesn’t take too much effort to elicit this answer from Christians and the funny thing is despite you pointing out so many things where they need to “trust God” in they will say that they trust God because he has shown himself to be trustworthy! Because he has been consistent with his word and there is so much evidence in favor of Jesus and the Bible (if you ignore the stuff you can’t answer and reply with assertions that cannot be disproved) he is worthy of our trust!

Second Thought, Let’s Just Obliterate it

Well, I think this following example is the perfect stick to jam into their spokes (To be forthright, I didn’t come up with this myself but came across it via Bart Ehrman). Of course the reaction I expect from most will be to ignore the problem and just “trust God™” but I’m hoping at least some will use the little bit of rational thinking needed to realize how big of a problem this issue is.

The problem is in the Gospel of John. In John 3, the very same chapter where get all those billboards proclaiming “John 3:16” is where we find our interesting problem. I’ll quote the passage here for all of us to read:
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ – John 3:1-7 (ESV)I’m sure many of us are familiar with this passage; essentially the passage boils down to Nicodemus misunderstanding Jesus’ statement and then Jesus proceeding to expand upon his statement. Now your pastor probably skips past the reason for the misunderstanding but I’ll explain it to you.
When Jesus says “born again” in this passage, the Koine Greek word behind it has a variety of meanings. It doesn’t just mean “again” but can also mean “a second time” or “from above”. Now there it’s obvious that Jesus in this narrative probably means all of these various meanings. Not only must Nicodemus be born again but he must also be born a second time, the second time being his birth from above, in other words, his spiritual birth.

It’s understandable in this context why Nicodemus is confused. Which of these meanings does Jesus intend? Surely he doesn’t mean a physical rebirth? That is an impossibility! The author through Nicodemus’ confusion uses it as a plot device to enable Jesus to hammer his point on. Simple enough, yes? No issues so far, right? Wrong.

Wait, What?!

You see, Jesus wasn’t actually speaking in Greek (nor would any Jew at that time) to his fellow man. He was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, there is no such confusion possible because the word “again” simply means again, as it does in English. What does this mean?

It means that this conversation couldn’t have happened. Jesus’ skillful wordplay on the word “again” wasn’t used because it was invented by the author who was writing in the Greek language. Nicodemus’ confusion didn’t occur because he misunderstood Jesus, it occurred because the author thought it’d be a great way to show off Jesus and expand upon the sermonette.

Conclusion

I remember coming across this example through either a lecture of or a book by Bart Ehrman (I can’t for the life of me remember which). I remember how shocked I was when I first read that. It really shook me as a Christian. Everything else I read that he critiqued I dismissed without batting an eyelid but this unnerved me. It unnerved me because it made so much sense.

The author did intend without a shadow of a doubt to use the word “again” in this wordplay. So he either made up the situation completely (which would be the option I’d personally take) or he basically “accentuated” (i.e. told lies to make it sound better than it was) the real situation. Either way it’s quite devastating to Christianity’s view of inerrancy, even if Nicodemus was confused despite speaking in Aramaic.

By Dan ~

I grew up in a conservative Christian home in South Africa during the apartheid years. In those days all the white people were Christians and we were taught not to challenge authority. After I left school I did not bother going to church and did not even think about Christianity until I got married and my first child was born. I started going to church again with my wife, not because of conviction but because that was the expected thing to do. Although I was only a typical Sunday Christian, I have put my talents to use and quickly became a deacon and after two years one of the youngest elders in the congregation.

I was a full-time soldier and was involved in the war in Angola. During this time I started to question God and Christ and decided to walk away from all that. I left the church, and my wife left me.

For years I read everything I could find on evolution, the history of the church, and other religions, mainly to equip myself for arguing with Christians.

Then I met my current wife. I loved her but she was a reborn evangelical Christian. I started attending church again, mainly to please her. Eventually the bombardment of scripture and Christian literature got to me and I was re-born, baptized, and on my way to heaven.

For six years I became intensely involved, leading prayer groups, testifying in churches, studying the Bible, and doing the stuff that pentecostal Christians do.

But slowly, stuff started not to make sense any more. I started asking the difficult questions and got the normal nonsensical answer. It was a difficult time for me. I could not sleep and spent many guilt-ridden nights praying, reading the Bible, and looking for answers.

On night, studying the theme Faith I read the definition of faith in Hebrews 11: 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Huh?

Faith is believing in things you hope is true and then it became evidence because you cannot see it - or something like that.

I suppose that clinched the deal. I closed my Bible and never read it again.

After about a year of this I finally told my wife last night that I am no longer a believer. I think she suspected it because I have not participated in any of her discussions on her daily Bible studies. She is a passionate Christian and spends the whole day, every day, listing to the teachings of Andrew Warmack and listening to gospel music.

I guess it is going to put strain on my marriage, and at this point I am not sure how to handle it.

Time will tell, but I am never going to be drawn back into that surreal phony religion (or any other religion for that matter).

By Matt ~

Howdy all, my name is Matt and yep coming here because I'm going forward only to come back to the beginning. Long story short; raised a Jehovah's Witness in a very violent home. Tried to commit suicide, offered myself as a martyr by refusing a blood transfusion 26 years ago, led a debauched lifestyle, had a child, tried a relationship as a father who believed in the bible god, to be a good example as a father, but father just no longer can bring himself to go to church, believe in blind faith, haven't been associated with any church for quite a while.

Image by JW Ogden via FlickrMy daughter no longer wants to go to church, she's 12 so I'm not getting a 'why not' conversation out of her as to why she doesn't want to go. But gut feeling is that she finds something not quite right about religion. I'm not 100% sure that's how she feels/thinks, but she does not like to discuss religion, yet she's still on tract to go through some type of ritual at the Lutheran church her mother makes her go to, which she likes to go to, or so she says. Like I said she doesn't like to discuss religion stuff, she instantly shuts me off when I try to bring it up.

I haven't been the exemplary role model for church. I've dragged her to quite a few, more than a dozen for sure. I've done my 'church shopping' with her hoping to find that one church that made things 'click' for me and her, but so far just hitting duds instead of 'clicks'. Last one had pretty good music, but the message was still the same as all the others ones I've heard: 'Have a relation ship with a historical figure who really doesn't like you', or spend your life with a blind faith consisting of contradictions, counter similarities and prejudice.

Yet I continue coming back to the beginning in that no matter the arguments, proof, truth, theory or emotion, I cannot shake the belief that the entire cosmos just popped into existence over a couple of quadrillion years. I really have a hard time believing the bible shows us this answer. Why am I going to pay so much attention to a way of life from a barbaric civilization who came upon the scene in a very short not so long ago compared to the age of the earth, and that civilization receives much more attention than the civilizations that have been found that were on the scene long before Adam was created.

I've been so entrenched into believing, I'm having a hard time altering my thoughts... not my lifestyle, but my beliefs. I really don't like the sound of hell. Yet the bible words for hell aren't Dante, but Alexandrian.

I'll be back Sunday but in the meantime some of the best stuff here at DC is from Dr. Hector Avalos and Dr. Jaco Gericke. (On Hector's posts click at the bottom of the first page for "Older Posts" to see more). Enjoy and comment below at will.

Surely this can make us all laugh, right?

Led by Indian-origin educational Dr Sriya Iyer, a investigate reveals that new ways of eremite organisations diversifying embody cow-lending, computer-based learning; sewing and gymnastics classes.

The study’s commentary are sum in a latest book of Research Horizons. The Cambridge group from a Faculty of Economics and a Cambridge Judge Business School spent dual years contemplating 568 Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh and Jain eremite organisations opposite 7 Indian states to inspect their innovations in charity eremite and non-religious use provision.

The consult is believed to be one of a initial of a kind in India with researchers anticipating that nonetheless India is apropos some-more absolute and wealthy, rising amicable inequality – generally in a poorer states – means eremite groups mostly fill a crack left by a miss of amicable welfare, generally in a fields of preparation and healthcare. Dr Iyer of a Faculty of Economics and St Catharine’s College, said, “We have found that a resilience of sacrament draws from a ability of groups to commence creation and innovative behaviour, identical to a poise celebrated in business firms”.

She added, “In a same ways a business tries to stay forward of a competitors, eremite groups are display a same receptive mercantile responses to changes in a political, ecological and mercantile environments in that they operate.” Examples of eremite and non-religious offerings opposite a 7 states enclosed weddings and other eremite ceremonies telecast over a internet in genuine time for abroad friends and family to witness, blood donation, eye camps, drug rehabilitation, aged age homes, widow gratification programmes and organized mass marriages for a poor.

The consult also found that eremite groups competence act in a same approach as businesses in competing to offer singular offered points when it comes to matters of ideology. In further to their eremite offerings, they yield some-more non-religious services in response to perceptions about augmenting income inequality.

With rising income inequality, a bad direct some-more non-religious services and organisations respond to this direct by providing these services more, a investigate says.

Dr Iyer said, “What is also engaging is a clearly enigmatic idea hold by many of these groups that nonetheless India is removing richer and flourishing economically, inequality is also growing. So people competence turn ‘consumers’ of sacrament formed on a eremite group’s beliefs – though also a cost and resources advantages from membership of a sold organization such as education, health, food distribution, practice and a other services.”

The consult took place in Maharashtra, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, Jammu and Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal and Gujarat. In total, 272 Hindu eremite groups were interviewed, along with 248 Muslim, 25 Christian and 23 Sikh and Jain eremite organisations.

Dr Iyer also points out that many eremite groups have really certain effects on their supporters and a wider community. She said, “Counter to some analyses of sacrament in India that have generally complicated a disastrous consequences sacrament competence engender, we are emphasizing a certain purpose of some eremite organisations in India currently and a work they do among a wider community”.

One of a many distinguished innovations a group found was a cow lending intrigue in Gujarat, where people from a village can steal a cow, for as prolonged as they like, during no cost. Researchers pronounced they were also astounded to find activities such as gymnastics classes.

Dr Iyer said, “The approach eremite groups are innovating is fascinating. The offerings done by Muslim and Christian groups competence differ from those supplies done by Hindus, though opposite all religions we see a ways in that these groups act in a professional demeanour in response to their competitors and in response to income inequality, though also out of a eagerness to do good and assistance where state sustenance is inadequate”.

She added: “We found justification that organisations of all religions in India have almost increasing their supplies of eremite and generally non-religious services in sequence to surrogate for a miss of state sustenance and that this is associated to their notice of inequality and poverty. This is generally a box in poorer states.

By Joshua ~

I'm a police officer. This only matters because anyone who has a job whose tools include a gun and body armor has a strong disposition towards being religious. My job is in the south suburbs of Chicago, an area generally known as being less than pleasant. Every time I strap on my vest and duty belt I am reminded why I wear them, death is real, violence is real, and the people who would love to put a bullet into me are real. I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist household, and the beliefs that were taught to me sat well with the nature of my job. It's a pretty nice thought to believe that an all powerful being has your back, it's the ultimate back up unit. So why would I give it all up?

In the beginnings of my faith as a young teenager, I always had problems with the Christian view of predestination and free will in coordination with a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient God, and that the suffering in this world was the result of two people listening to a talking snake (never mind the "fact" that God let Satan exist in the perfect garden of Eden in the first place). Even in my juvenile brain, it seemed like humans were set up to fail. I shook this doubt off for the next umpteen years by saying "Us mortals just don't understand God's immortal plan", and left it at that.

The first time I explored these doubts was when my wife started having multiple miscarriages when we were trying to have children. Although it's not the worst thing that can happen to you, once something negative like this keeps reoccurring, it takes the happiness away from the joy of pregnancy. Instead of counting the days until we could welcome our bundle of joy, we counted the time it would take until we would no longer see a heartbeat on the ultrasound monitor. The later of the miscarriages happened at a time when I was already vulnerable in my faith due to events that I'll get into below. I felt that God did not want me to be happy about anything anymore, he had turned a joyous event into one of apprehension and suffering. Watching Christian friends of ours enjoy lives where everything seemed to work out was becoming increasingly difficult.

Doubts about my faith moved from the back of my brain to the front of it when me and my wife's goodwill towards her family was taken advantage of. Her family also believes in the fundamentalist view of Christianity, although you'd be hard pressed to tell by some of their actions. Me and my wife put family before money (a supposedly admirable thing), and we've been paying for it for the last two years. Through a series of reckless business ventures, my father in law decided to declare bankruptcy, this left me hanging out to dry. I had done a paper transfer of ownership on two houses that my father in law had owned, backed with his guarantee that he would be soley responsible for upkeep and all financial obligations towards the houses. After finding out that he hadn't paid property taxes on either house in almost two years after I received notices of tax sales, and the fact that he had stopped being "financially responsible" for these houses, I had some tough choices on my plate. No matter how things would end up, I thought I would be vindicated by God, due to me and my wife's hearts being in the right place. I believed without a doubt that God would work through this situation. Where people fail, God doesn't.

This leads me to "Pastor" Brian. He was temporarily residing in one of the houses I was trying to sell and was a minister at a local Christian church. I let him know I was selling the house to give him as much time as possible to find a place to live. I even talked to him "Christian to Christian" and let him know what me and my family were going through. He told me he knew what I was going through, as he had also faced a similar experience, and that God's will would be executed if everything was handled with honesty and integrity. I had thought that having a Christian pastor involved in this process was a blessing from God.

After a whole lot of praying, I received an offer on the house. After thanking God for this answer to prayer, I let Pastor Brian know about this immediately. Contacting him then became increasingly difficult. As me and the buyer moved to close the deal, the buyer rightfully wanted to have the house fully inspected, to which I notified Brian for his convenience. The inspection date happened to fall on a weekend that me and my wife were going out of town for some much needed time away. Before leaving I contacted Brian again to remind him of the inspection and to contact me if there were any problems. While attempting to enjoy a precious couple days away from the madness, I received a frantic call from my real estate agent saying that "Pastor Brian" wasn't letting anybody in the house and that he was threatening to call the police if everyone didn't get off of "his" property. He told the inspectors and everyone there that I never told him about the inspection, so he wasn't letting anyone in. So much for honesty and integrity. Thanks to the non-Christian people that were involved in the deal, they were able to push the closing through despite Pastor Brian's best efforts at sabotage.

After a few more unfortunate incidents me and my wife had to go through, I became desperate with God. I spent more time in agonizing prayer in six months than I had for the previous twenty years as a Christian. I prayed for understanding, relief, signs, miracles, words of encouragement from fellow Christians, or any other reason to hold onto my faith. You name it, I prayed for it. I also became increasingly aware that I felt like I was talking to myself.

I then decided to open myself up to "Truth", no matter what it might be or where it might lead. The first step I took was considering the possibility that I didn't have the truth. I reasoned that if what I believed was the truth, it would become evident to me. I still considered myself a Christian, but wanted to open myself to knowledge that I had dismissed as "the devil's work" for many years. I read various works on philosophy, apologetics, the history of the Bible and Christianity, science, and even atheism. I noticed the more I learned, the more doubt I had about my faith. Saying "God did it" wasn't enough anymore. Why was there so much evidence contrary to what I believed? I wrestled with the thought "if God is the truth, why isn't it more obvious?" The emperor was losing his clothes, and he didn't seem to care.

I found that he was naked on a cold winter night last December. I was dispatched to a paramedic call that came out as "a 12 year old dying". I arrived at the house to find a hysterical mother holding what was supposed to be the body of a 12 year old child. The child looked no older than six, and his limbs stuck out at awkward angles. The mom told me through sobs that this was because his muscles were too weak to keep his joints in socket, and that her son was diagnosed with a debilitating disease as a baby. All his muscles would atrophy which would eventually lead to suffocation or heart failure, and it appeared that time was here. She then retrieved a piece of paper which was a DNR for her son. I get to watch this kid die. As agonal breathing set in, which is the body's last attempt at getting oxygen, she began begging us to help her son. Instead of sitting there watching her kid die, she agreed to taking her son to a nearby hospital where they might at least be able to make him comfortable. As we loaded him in the ambulance, she lost it. She crumbled to the ground and started throwing up. Watching your kid die has to be the purest form of agony.

Once everyone was loaded up in the ambulance I sat in my squad and chewed a piece gum, trying to get the smell of vomit out of my nose. It was then reason hit me in the chest harder than the "Holy Spirit" ever had. I was left with no choice, I didn't give up my faith, I was dragged kicking and screaming from it. This child didn't suffer because of a talking snake, he suffered because he was the victim of a genetic defect. For a Christian to say that we all deserve suffering is to make a mockery of every human that has had no choice in their suffering. There is no divine plan, there's just life, in all it's beauty and frailty. In all my soul searching for divine inspiration, it was deconversion that provided the clarity I had been looking for.

By Valerie Tarico ~

Justin Griffith is a twenty-eight year old active duty soldier, a sergeant at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. He is also a new dad. Griffith likes what he does. He describes the military as a place that has structure, discipline, and opportunities. From his point of view, he has a full life, and a good one. And yet it was Griffith, as much anyone, who blew open the U.S. Army’s Spiritual Fitness program this winter. Why? Why make waves in a job you love among people you respect? Why risk the pariah status that is so often the lot of whistleblowers? Griffith agreed to let me ask him those questions.

Justin GriffithTarico: I’m impressed that you got permission to talk publicly about the Spiritual Fitness Program.

Griffith: Well, I need to say that I am speaking as Sgt. Justin Griffith. I am not representing the army in any official way. I’m free to talk about my opinions and experiences related to the mandatory soldier fitness tracker, how “Spiritual Fitness” testing and training is being used to put religious conversion pressure on soldiers like me--but not as an expert or in an official capacity. I’ve recently been told that my unit’s public affairs department received a ‘disengage order’ regarding their support. So I’m now only permitted to speak to the media off-duty, all I’ve ever done anyway. I was told that the order came from the Comprehensive Soldier Fitness people, and that’s kind of scary.

Tarico: So who is Sgt. Justin Griffith?

Griffith: I’m a soldier and a husband, and the dad of a baby girl. I’m 28. I’ve been in the military for four years. I love the military. The military changed my life. It’s given me opportunities to grow as a human being. I’m also an atheist—one of those atheists in foxholes. My day to day experience as an atheist in the army is positive. Overwhelmingly. I’ve got nothing but the utmost support from my colleagues, nothing but respect. Before I spoke out about Rock the Fort and the Spiritual Fitness Program 99.9% of my interactions with my colleagues had nothing to do with atheism or were positive. Everyone who is an “out” atheist gets a few horror stories, and I’ve got them, but the vast majority of people are respectful or distant if they are not. I love the army-- I love my wife-- I love my unit-- I love my wife—I love all of them.

Tarico: That all sounds rather positive, in fact better than what most people could say about their lives and their work. Why didn’t you just leave well enough alone?

Rock the Fort evangelistic rallyriffith: I was talking about the day-to-day, face-to-face perspective. The big stuff that’s coming down from the top, that’s different. There are existing rules in place that are being violated systematically. For instance, soldiers are very vulnerable when they come out of basic training, and evangelistic organizations take advantage of that to target them. Look at the picture of the five hundred soldiers being converted by the Billy Graham people. It's 200 here, 150 there on stage in uniform. It’s epidemic, and I find it outrageous. The amount of money being spent by American citizens to support Evangelical proselytizing activities is substantial. The smokescreen about spiritual fitness having nothing to do with proselytizing is just that--smoke.

Tarico: What was your first encounter with the Spiritual Fitness program?

GAT MandatoryGriffith: Every soldier at every rank at every base, whether deployed or not is required to fill out the “Global Assessment Tool” which is part of the Soldier Fitness Tracker, which is the test and training combined. The first time I took it I was deployed downrange in Kuwait, late in 2009. I was disgusted by what I saw—both the questions and the results that straight up implied that I am unfit as a soldier. But I was deployed, and I didn’t have time to react. I figured, someone will fix this. I didn’t expect to ever see it again. A year later, in December 2010, I got a message. “You’re deficient; You haven’t taken your annual Soldier Fitness Test.” So I opened it again and couldn’t believe it was still the same. I thought, “How is this still allowed?! How is it that no one has called them out on it?”

Tarico: What did it say?

Griffith: The questions are things like:

• “I am a spiritual person.” Answer 1 to 5, from not like me to very like me.
• “My life has a lasting meaning.” What does that mean? Hell yea, my life has meaning, but “lasting meaning”?? To me that’s like Albert Einstein. His life has lasting meaning. But what about Albert’s mother? Does anybody remember her name? But then I thought, statistically speaking it is possible, so I answered 2/5.
• “I believe that in some way my life is closely connected to all humanity and all the world.” To me that means me and my six billion closest friends are hanging out playing Nintendo.
• “The job I am doing in the military has lasting meaning.” 2/5. Not likely, but I guess it’s possible. Look: On a long enough time line no-one’s life has lasting meaning. The universe will end in – call it the big crunch, heat death, proton decay, call it whatever you want. If you think of time as the trillionth to the trillionth power . . . in a real way the question itself is meaningless, unless you believe in eternal life, or the afterlife, or other such theological ideas.
• “I believe there is a purpose for my life.” I can’t even count how many purposes I have for my life. I answered that a 5/5.

Tarico: In other words this isn’t about you being adrift, without purpose or focus.

Protestant cross in chapelGriffith: I would like to defend the Comprehensive Fitness testing in one sense: It is a noble cause. They are trying to track and prevent suicide and PTSD; they just need to fix the implementation. There are four parts: Spiritual, Social, Family, and Emotional. Three of them are grounded in reality. But they need to remove the spirituality piece,The results of this test are a huge slap in the face to someone like me—a committed soldier who is nonreligious. When I clicked submit, it said things like “At times it hard for you to make sense of what is going on.” and “Improving your spiritual fitness should be a goal.” It suggested that I speak with a counselor. I dialed the number –it was emergency mental health counselor. They also have online remedial training about spiritual fitness, which is also mandatory.

This is wrong on so many levels. The Spiritual Fitness Test is lining the coffers at the chaplaincy and the religious support office nationwide because when soldiers like me are sent for remediation then there’s a demand for their services. To make matters worse, they freely admit that the test results are used for human resource decisions. Would that be allowed in a private sector job? You can’t defend it because you can’t define it. It’s empty vacuous crap. Not to mention that it’s unconstitutional to even ask. That’s why I decided to get the word out.

Spiritual ritual haircutTarico: Spokespersons for the Army say that “spiritual” means in good spirits; it means spirited. They use getting a haircut as an example of a “spiritual ritual.” That all sounds like it could apply to anyone.

Griffith: Look closer. A lot of the imagery in the training materials is explicitly Christian. They’ve now removed the part about the Christian flag folding ceremony that included references to the trinity and Jesus Christ and women playing a supporting role to men. In reality, the twelve folds traditionally have no symbolism at all. The point is geometric a way to handle and store the flag respectfully. Someone in the Air Force in the 80s made it up this Evangelical interpretation. It has been banned from Air Force documents before, but there it was in the Spiritual Fitness training materials. What a smoking gun!

Honestly, if you want to leave what’s not religious in the Spiritual Fitness Training, you are left trying to convince yourself that spirituality is on par with getting a haircut, because that is a ritual. If that is the case, I don’t understand how I failed because I get my haircut every two weeks.

Tarico: Spokespersons for the Army also are saying that the testing and training aren’t mandatory.

GAT MandatoryGriffith: It most certainly is mandatory, and they even have a disclaimer about how you will be punished by an Article 15 of the Universal Code of Military Justice, if you do not comply.

This is similar to a serious misdemeanor in the civilian court system. But here’s the irony. If they take out the spiritual part it definitely should be mandatory. If someone fails the emotional aspect of this test – if one of my soldiers failed the emotional part I would want to know. I would try to engage and comfort them, possibly alert their family. It definitely should be mandatory without religion.

Spiritual Fitness Training -- dining hall prayer
These tests were based on a test developed at the University of Pennsylvania, by the same person who crafted the CIA’s torture policy. Strangely that version of the test is great. The Army butchered the U Penn test. The original is available at UPenn.edu. You can take it yourself. It asks the same questions, ten each in twenty four different subject areas, but what it provides is a ranking comparing you to yourself. All it said was the order of the twenty-four personal qualities. It tells you your top five. Mine were: creative problem solving, bravery. . . Positive things. I learned that I needed to work on forgiveness, which was far down on my list. Of course religion wasn’t one of my strengths –and that’s just fine. I think it would do soldiers good to take that version of the test. And it’s free so we didn’t have to spend how many multimedia dollars they spent creating this soldier fitness tragedy.

Tarico: But the Army’s version of this Spiritual Fitness focus goes beyond just the test and training.

Griffith: Yes, it gets worse. At Fort Hood they are building a thirty million dollar Spiritual Fitness Center. Thirty million in tax dollars. In my opinion it’s a mega church being built for a chaplain on the public dime.

Rock the Fort was a big evangelistic rally that went from base to base using a complicated combination of appropriated and non-appropriated government controlled funds. It was billed as a spiritual fitness event, but it was explicitly Evangelical, meaning it was a membership drive. By the time it got to Fort Bragg, Americans United, the ACLU, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation were sending letters and trying to get court injunctions to have the event cancelled.

Tarico: I understand that the command defended it, and it went forward.

Griffith: The commander, Lieutenant General Helmick, stated that he wasn’t going to cancel the event (which happened September 25, 2010) because the same level of support would be offered to any other group, regardless of their spiritual orientation. The Secretary of the Army, John McHugh, said the same thing. So we decided to take him up on that offer with an event called Rock Beyond Belief. I certainly respect any officer in my command. I would like to say that they are lucky that it’s us and not some radical Muslim group or Scientologists, or some crazy death cult. The stated goal of Rock the Fort was to convert as many soldiers, wives and civilians as possible to their form of belief. We don’t want to do that. Sure, we could solicit de-conversions or perform de-baptisms with hairdryers and that would be the counterpart of Rock the Fort. We could get on a P.A. system and claim four thousand people have been de-baptized. But that’s not what we’re about. We’re looking for tolerance and respect for atheists and humanists – the most maligned fifteen percent of American society.

Tarico: So what is Rock Beyond Belief, as you visualize it?

Griffith: It will be a secular festival of speakers and music promoting awareness and tolerance for soldiers that lack belief. We’re nontheists, non religious. It’s a festival for the rest of us. It’s open to soldiers, family members, children, and also civilians from the surrounding area. We’ve got world class speakers lined up. Richard Dawkins will be our biggest draw. Roy Zimmerman, Jeffrey Lewis, and evolution/science rapper Baba Brinkman will be joined by many others in the music department.

It’s also a test case. We don’t think any event including ours should be funded by the US taxpayers, promoting proselytism for any sectarian group. It seems like they either have to adjust the policy—Rock the Fort can’t happen again—or they have to allow us and anyone who asks. To keep it fair, they have to give them $100K to play with, because that’s what they did for Rock the Fort. What if we have a different religion every day? Pastafarians or whatever. Permanent Woodstock.

Tarico: It seemed like a sure thing, but now Rock Beyond Belief is in question.

Spreadsheet: Rock the Fort vs. Rock Beyond BeliefGriffith: A lot of things changed in the last two weeks. There is a road block, and the Rock Beyond Belief event is not going to happen as planned in April. We received last-minute crippling restrictions from the Garrison Commander. He nixed all of the money from non-appropriated sources that the evangelical Christians were able to tap, so we were unable to afford to pay for the hotel bill for our 19 guests for starters. The other event got over $100,000 in funding, to include appropriated and non-appropriated government-controlled funds. He specifically banned us from paying for things that the other group did pay for.

Also, he forced a ‘warning label’ on our event. Contrary to the ringing endorsements, official Fort Bragg phone numbers STILL listed, and all the news releases coming from Public Affairs, and the Religious Support Office, and IMCOM… we were being forced to put a danger/warning label on all of the flyers, posters, and advertisements (advertisements that we now can’t afford). Also, this might not surprise you, but the Rock the Fort concert was officially endorsed as a spiritual fitness event. Yeah.

We were also forced into a much tinier venue the size of a small grade-school gymnasium, not nearly big enough to hold Richard Dawkins (if he was by himself!) They are actually saying ‘we only expect a couple hundred people would show up for Richard Dawkins’. I’m embarrassed for them. They probably think that people might believe them. They are saying that to reporters! I asked to see the ‘media analysis’ they keep referring to. At first they said ‘I don’t have it on paper.’ Which begged the question, ‘Can you send it to me on e-mail?’ Shockingly, the same member of the Colonel’s staff replied ‘it doesn’t exist digitally either.’ That is insane. Additionally, a ‘minimum audience projection’ was never a condition of having a similar level of support, regardless of how demonstrably wrong they are about such projections. This is not only discriminatory, it’s yet another clear cut example of Fort Bragg not being ‘willing and able to offer equal treatment’

Tarico: What are your officers and peers saying about all of this?

Griffith: My commanders have been encouraging, respectful, but hesitant to say, “Hey I’m on your side.” They can’t really endorse what I’m doing, but they have enabled me to speak to people like yourself. My colleagues and peers-- I’d say there’s nothing but excitement about Rock Beyond Belief, but they are a little cautious.

Tarico: What is the next step?

Griffith: It’s really too early to tell. There is a high chance of this making it to federal court. We are not holding our breath for April 2nd to work out. We’ve come so far, and done so many great things. Whatever the future holds, I know one thing is certain: We won’t be backing down or simply going away. We have a real momentum going, and it’s about time.

Tarico: Has it all been worth it?

Griffith: Emphatically YES. Before I told the story of the Spiritual Fitness Testing. I had a network from trying to get speakers and musicians to Rock Beyond Belief. I basically sent out a mass letter saying I need help getting this out. Within an hour or two my server exploded, and I was no longer able to have a website for about two days till I switched over to a server that could handle it. At the same time the Examiner picked up the story and got 1.5 million hits.

Emergency Bible versesPeople now have their eyes on “Spiritual Fitness,” the vacuous smoke screen for religion in the military. The Army has removed the flag folding ceremony and has changed some of the other language to make the training materials look more neutral. For example, they replace the word spiritual with spirit. In fact, the intro to the assessment says, “The spiritual dimension questions on the GAT pertain to the domain of the Human Spirit; they are not religious in nature. But then they still have a picture of people praying. When they removed the flag folding ceremony, I thought one down and ninety-nine to go.

“Spiritual Fitness,” the vacuous smoke screen for religion in the militaryI learned that it is possible to make a difference. It is possible to stand up for what is right, and not have to suffer punishment. That people will like you if you are a good person, and if what you are saying is right and true, people will support you. I learned that there are hundreds of ‘SGT Griffith’s’ on every base willing to speak out now, that my example is comfortingly typical. My inbox is flooded with overwhelmingly positive letters. Those messages keep our local movement going, and are extremely touching to read.

Tarico: So, you plan to keep going.

Griffith: Look - A soldier wrote a letter to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. He and twenty-five buddies forced to go see the chaplain because of their low test scores. The whole program is ripe and ready for abuse. Two hundred twenty six co-clients, including battle worn soldier signed on to have the MRFF represent them. They sent a cease and desist letter asking that the Army stop using the Spiritual Fitness test and training. The letter expired January 25, and they have not fulfilled MRFF’s request.

Heroes, battle heroes are having their lives torn. That is why I keep at it. I keep that letter from that soldier –I keep his words in my pockets.

I swore to defend the constitution. I’m an atheist, and I don’t swear to many things. But I’ll swear an oath to defend the constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I don’t consider these people enemies of the U.S. or intentional enemies of the constitution but neither are they scholars of it. That document, our Constitution, defines freedom as we Americans know it.

By mari_mayhem ~

On March 7th 2011, my grandmother died in what people are probably deeming an act of god. I would say that it is far from that. Many would think me heartless for the things I am about to write, but for me this is part of the grieving process. They say we all grieve in our own way, well this is mine. This woman is known to have been a popular pastor for fifty years and they viewed this woman as a perfect person. When I say perfect, I mean perfect. They had a lovely suburban home, seven children, and god was a reality for them every day of life. What they don't know is that this woman, no matter how kind in her later years, destroyed my life. I don't think it's what she intended to do and it's not very often that a person goes out of their way to ruin another. Still it is her life's work of ministry that destroyed her family. Now the only real reason I am doing this is so that maybe you will be more able to see through the lies of others. Maybe you will continue to confidently pursue your own deconversion or to help others in evangelical families.

This woman did her best to live her life through the bible, and married at age seventeen. That is about five years below the average age for marriage in 1950. The only real answer that I can think of for this is that her religion dictated no sex before marriage. Whether or not that actually happened is anyone's guess, but they methodically popped out seven kids. This would be fine if their parenting skills had not come directly from the bible. They might as well have stoned the kids to death, because what happened is worse. We're talking about what is essentially an extremely dysfunctional family in the guise of glowing perfection and holiness. She beat every last one of those kids senseless because she lacked the ability to parent that many kids without violence. Not a single one of them turned out right, because they learned to hide their problems and their ungodly desires. All of which blew up in their faces. This woman started a religious empire amongst her family, with many powerless beneath it's tyrannical rule. Praying never fixed the problems of her children and these were pretty serious things. We're talking about an instance of sibling incest rape, infidelity, drug abuse, severe obesity, heart disease, and alcoholism. That's only the problems with my father, aunts and uncles. That's probably not even half of what's taken place. Sure every family has it's problems, but not a single one of them really turned out alright. Many of them passed on the same parenting style to their kids and instilled them with similar values.

Now this brings us to my abuse at the hands of my father. I have ADHD and was unable to sit still or concentrate as a young child. I'm sure you can see where this went. I couldn't be still in church and I couldn't tell my father that I found it boring. I couldn't tell him that I hated church or that I'd never once felt the presence of god. This man was a drunk, a pervert, and a child abuser. In fact, I'm pretty sure he never wanted kids. However this hippy from the 70's had tried to reform his ways for his mother's sake. He'd traded his drugs and alcohol for a bible and a nice suit. He attempted to hide his true nature for the sake of his family and pretty much destroyed our family in the process. I now suffer from at least three different mental disorders related to the abuse. I don't ask for pity or sympathy. What I do ask is that people do what is needed so that this sort of thing never has to happen.

I'm sure that grandma did what she thought was best, but that's the thing. It wasn't what was best, and she believed throughly that it was what god wanted and demanded from her. This woman's whole life and existence was a sacrifice to an imaginary friend. She believed he spoke to her and guided her, but look what happened. She also didn't die the way you'd expect a holy individual to die. Some faulty electrical wires in the house caught fire and she died of smoke inhalation. Now of all of this, the one thing that bothers me the most is that I could never have a proper relationship with her. I never told her that I didn't believe. Perhaps that makes me a coward or a hypocrite, but religion meant everything to her. She invested so much into it. I'm sure that me being the way that I am, would break her heart. My father had been her favorite child, and yet he failed her most of all. I couldn't be honest with her. Doing so would have been just plain cruelty.

It is a tragedy, that a woman lived her life like this. That she did her best to spread love and compassion and instead only brought pain and disaster. She was an amazing woman, and if not for the religious barrier I think I could have shown her just how amazing I could be in return. I don't know if she would have forgiven me for what I've done, but I know that I somehow forgive her for starting it all. Knowing this I thank my grandmother for giving me the gift she never intended to give me, rational thought. May she rest in peace.

Yep, he does not deal with what scientifically minded skeptics actually think. Just look at this. That's not what we think at all. And his argument is most emphatically ignorant about evolution.

Because of this I really don't understand why he believes it's a good argument at all. One must first understand our position.

Let's say you have a tool that is damaged to some degree. Let’s say it’s a circular saw and the blade is in need of sharpening, or even worse, needs thrown away.

Can you still cut timber? Yes or no?

Now let’s say you have no other tool that will do the job better.

What to to?

I find it to be an impossible argument to say that our brains are completely and utterly untrustworthy given evolution. THAT'S the argument he has to make, and it simply cannot be made.

What to do? Use it.

Given that we know from all scientific studies that we are not all that rational, then we can know this much, that we are not all that rational! Get the point. Yet this is the only tool in our toolbox. So we must use it to find our way. Since this is the case we can only trust the sciences to light our path.

What am I missing?

Nothing.

His only recourse, should he actually deal with what evolution commits us to, is to deny evolution--to denigrate the sciences--which is typical.

Jerry Coyne wrote:Every day, hundreds of observations and experiments pour into the hopper of the scientific literature. Many of them don't have much to do with evolution - they're observations about he details of physiology, biochemistry, development, and so on - but many of them do. And every fact that has something to do with evolution confirms its truth. Every fossil that we find, every DNA molecule that we sequence, every organ system that we dissect, supports the idea that species evolved from common ancestors. Despite innumerable possible observations that could prove evolution untrue, we don't have a single one. We don't find mammals in Precambrian rocks, humans in the same layers as dinosaurs, or any other fossils out of evolutionary order. DNA sequencing supports the evolutionary relationships of species originally deduced from the fossil record. And, as natural selection predicts, we find no species with adaptations that only benefit a different species. We do find dead genes and vestigial organs, incomprehensible under the idea of special creation. Despite a million chances to be wrong, evolution always comes up right. That is as close as we can get to a scientific truth. -Why Evolution Is True. Richard Dawkins wrote: Evolution is a fact. Beyond reasonable doubt, beyond serious doubt, beyond sane, informed, intelligent doubt, beyond doubt evolution is a fact. The evidence for evolution is at least as strong as the evidence for the Holocaust, even allowing for eyewitnesses to the Holocaust. It is the plain truth that we are cousins of chimpanzees, somewhat more distant cousins of monkeys, more distant cousins still of aardvarks and manatees, yet more distant cousins of bananas and turnips...continue the list as long as desired...It didn't have to be true, but it is. We know this because a rising flood of evidence supports it. Evolution is a fact, and this book will demonstrate it. No reputable scientist disputes it, and no unbiased reader will close the book doubting it." - Greatest Show on Earth (pp. 8-9).I have written a a lot of material on the topic of rationality, including what the authors said in the first few chapters in "The Christian Delusion."

See here. If nothing else skim through the titles of these posts. I've reviewed books and listed further books to read.

The fact that none of us is entirely rational is a fact, except that those of us who know this about ourselves are more likely not to trust our whims or any anecdotal evidence or that which we prefer to be true. We would demand hard cold evidence whenever we can. And this data should make us all skeptical--all of us. Skepticism is a filter we use to strain out good ideas from the bad so we cannot dispense with it or become skeptical of that filter.

What to do?

Trust the sciences.

The alternative?

Denigrate them.

His argument doesn't really deal with what scientifically minded skeptics think. So why bother engaging it? There is no reason to do so. That's my position. The best response is to inform theists what we know from the sciences. I'm not hopeful even that will work.

Until philosophers deal with the sciences there is nothing to do but remind them what the sciences have shown us.
My point is that if evolution is the case we can still trust our reasoning abilities even though they are sometimes inadequate. In fact, this is what we would expect to find given that we have an evolved three tiered brain built on top of each other. That we do reason adequately enough is no reason to think we need a god for what we do with our brains.

Does this disprove Vic's argument?

NO, not at all.

But then before a believer will consider his faith to be improbable I must show him that it's impossible, and THAT is an utterly unreasonable request.

Fun Bible Questions, by my friend Matt Hensley:So, I thought I would help John with his blog and add a little humor today. I mean let’s face it: It’s been WAYYYY to serious around here lately. So I put together a list of fun questions to ask about the Bible. Feel free to cut loose and answer them in a fun way. After all, even super serious all knowing Atheists like us need to cut loose a little, right? Here we go:

1. If Jesus was such a good carpenter, why couldn’t he nail Mary Magdalene?

2. Did god design woodchucks with a predetermined level of wood chucking ability?

3. Why did Noah bother to save the Dodo bird, if god knew beforehand Christian sailors were going to eat them all?

4. If Solomon was so smart and holy, why did he get married 300 times?

5. Was Jesus a cheapskate? I mean seriously, loaves and fishes? Steaks and Lobsters would have drawn a bigger crowd.

6. Isn’t there something a little wrong about 13 guys wandering around the countryside “laying hands” on people?

7. Don’t you think god would draw more people to church if it was more like a magic miracle show every Sunday instead of an accountant convention?

8. What the point of being able to perform miracles if you can’t make a tiger disappear every time one tries to eat an Indian child?

9. God demands 10%. In the old days sacrificing and burning 10% of the flock was how he got paid. So why don’t churches set fire to the money they collect every week as a deposit into gods bank account?

10. Why was god always screwing with the Israelites? You’d think he would have spent more time ruining their enemies.

11. God invented everything. Therefore, god invented masturbation. How often do you think god does that? Is that why it’s been snowing so much lately?

12. Back to Solomon: with all those wives and concubines, how did he have time to do anything but have sex?

13. Why did god give all the oil to the Muslims and communists, if he loves Christians and Americans so much?

Thanks for reading and hopefully you had some fun. I’m outta here!!!!

By Sarah ~

I would like to share a story that may sound strange to most, but this situation is what has brought me to this website and also caused me to question some of my beliefs.

I was dating a man in a serious relationship for five years. We discussed plans of marriage, both of our families got along well, and overall we enjoyed each other. When I met him in 2005, he told me that he had gone through a two year period where he believed he was saved and had been compelled by God to do many things, including preach the gospel. He followed Family Radio and someone called Harold Camping. He was also compelled to marry a woman who he was teaching the bible to. The marriage only lasted a few months, he divorced her, and also stated that at this time he felt that God abandoned him.

For the years to follow he became a rebel of sorts, partying, womanizing, etc. When we met he seemed to calm down a bit, but there were still some issues that we were working out. However, we were in a relationship and growing stronger.

Fast forward to last November. He started listening to Family Radio again and also reading ebible fellowship. As time went on, he could not have a conversation without mentioning scripture. Then he started saying that judgment day would be May 21, 2011. I was not sure what to say. I do not believe these things or follow these doctrines. Needless to say things became weird between us. I felt helpless because he seemed to be sinking deeper and deeper into these beliefs.

In December 2010, he informed me that he would be returning to his ex-wife because the bible states that divorce is not allowed, therefore they are still married. During their marriage there are allegations of abuse and infidelity. He filed for divorce citing cruelty. She filed a restraining order against him. But now, he was being compelled by God to go back.

I was shocked and afraid when he said this to me. Again, we were together for 5 years and there were no major issues until he started reading the bible again. He reached out to the ex-wife and told her what had been revealed to him by God. She agreed to go back. They have been together now for 2 months. He has opened a facebook page where he posts different scriptures all day and is also talking about judgment day on May 21, 2011.

This has made me really skeptical about the Bible. I have wondered is this real? Is God really telling him to do these things? Is it mental illness? What will happen after May 21?

My main question do people believe something so strongly and do such crazy things if there is not something else going on with them? He seems to be in a trance. We have not spoken since he told me he was being commissioned to go back to his ex-wife. All he told me is that he hopes I do not hate him and that I should read my bible. I am totally confused about this.

By Tracy ~

I was born into a Southern Baptist Christian family. Before I could hold my head up on my own I had been “dedicated” to God. I accepted Jesus as my savior when I was four years old and was baptized when I was five.

Image by tpeñalver - TPG via FlickrI attended a Christian school from preschool through third grade (and again in eighth grade) where I was forced into chapel ever day, not counting regular church and Sunday school on Sunday mornings and nights, as well as church on Wednesday. At the age of eight my parents felt that God was telling them it was time to move.

And so began my experience with the Pentecostal Holiness Church. The Pentecostal Holiness denomination is based on the belief in the Pentecost and the “gifts of the spirit” which include “speaking in tongues” as well as being “slain in the spirit” and many others. Growing up, all of this made perfect sense to me and I didn’t understand why anyone would live any other way. I was “witnessing” to my friends to save their souls from hell by age 6 or 7. When I was eleven I was starting a youth group in my neighborhood to warn other kids my age about the impending apocalypse. And I first spoke in tongues when I was twelve. I was in a room full of other girls my age and the focus of our Wednesday night meeting was for everyone to accept the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. I didn’t realize it then, but I was already a skeptic. I watched the other girls with the 5 or 10 “prayer warriors” that had come to assist with the night’s project. They all spoke in tongues before I did. While I thought that it was all rather strange and didn’t understand it, I did understand that it was expected of me and that I was obviously not a “normal” Christian if I wasn’t doing it too. And so, after hours of attempting to invite the holy spirit into my body, I finally spoke in tongues. Most of the other girls were still going at it. I recall standing there with the strange babble coming out of my mouth and thinking that it was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen.

I continued to go to the same church for the next several years. I participated in all of the church functions and carried my bible every day to the public school my parents had finally sent me to. Despite accusations of being weird, I continued to show my dedication to my god. At some point I realized that I very rarely read my bible because I couldn’t make any sense out of it. It also disturbed me that my god was so violent and, at times, merciless, and so I ignored it all together. I didn’t begin to question things until the eleventh grade. My parents tend to think that I began questioning their beliefs because of the public school setting, though I can assure you, that was not the case.

It began with my junior prom. The issue was not the question of sex or men in general. I was so caught up in my studies that I could have cared less about dating (and I was still pro-abstinence at that point). My best male friend was a black classmate named Markas. We decided to go to prom together since neither of us was dating at the time. When I brought the idea up to my parents, my father reacted much more strongly than I had expected. What followed my suggestion was a series of lectures about interracial relationships and how “no daughter of mine is going anywhere with a black man!” or something to that effect. I asked him how he could feel that way when God wanted us to love everyone equally. However, my reasoning was wasted on him. I didn’t go to prom with Markas that year, but I did save the last dance for him.

After my prom, I began to ask questions. Neither my parents nor my pastors were comfortable answering most of them. The ones they did take into consideration were answered with bible verses that left me with more questions that they refused to answer. At times, I offended people to the point of anger. Somehow, the fact did not sit well with me. This continued throughout the twelfth grade. Though I had many unanswered questions, I never doubted that God was real or that Christianity was the only way of living. It was just an accepted fact that I never thought to doubt. I didn’t want to go to Hell! So, while I had questions, I pushed them to the back of my mind and continued daily life as always.

After graduation I met Aaron. He wasn’t anything special – he was just a boy, a little over a year older than me – but he knew things I didn’t. He knew about life and about living and he opened my eyes to a world of things I had been missing. It was his influence that led to my decision to lose my virginity to one of his friends. To me, it was a big deal. It was a major turning point in my life and I realized after doing it that I didn’t feel bad about it. I thought there would be guilt and possibly fear of God’s judgment, but there wasn’t. It felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I was finally able to let go of the good girl facade and live a little bit. But then my dad read my journal. What followed was a daughter’s worse nightmare. There was no yelling or arguing. There was a simple, “I’m so disappointed in you,” and he took away the “true love waits” ring he had given me on my 16th birthday. My parents told me that they were disappointed, but not as much as God was, but that god would forgive me and take me back. All I had to do was repent and vow not to do it again.

I soon became a self-proclaimed “seeker”. I was in search of the truth and would be for several years. I joined the Air Force and moved to Alaska, all the time seeking out answers but not finding any. But all the time I believed in God, Heaven, and Hell. I never questioned their existence because it never occurred to me to question it. I got married when I was 19 to a Presbyterian. Most of the women in the congregation were stay-at-home moms who didn’t believe in women in the workplace, birth control, or blue jeans. I once asked a question during a “theological discussion” between the men at a home gathering. I received sharp glares and no answers. I received the same when they found out I had voted for Obama. I still had serious doubts about religion, but I didn’t doubt God.

The final turning point was during a discussion with an Army medic. He was telling a story about an experience he had on a deployment. He was in a helicopter with wounded soldiers and there were no other planes around. Suddenly, enemy planes filled the sky and he knew they were dead. So he prayed that God would help them. And then the friendly forces came and shot down the enemy planes, killing them in the process. That was how he became a Christian. And that was how I became a non-believer. I realized that whether I was frightened of Hell or not, I couldn’t believe in a God that people believed would kill others for their gain. So my questions remained, but I knew my loyalty could not lie with such a god.

And then I found Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, ex-christian.net, and the Atheism Subreddit. And now I’m sure. I’ve talked to many others with backgrounds similar to mine and I’ve accepted over the past several months that children in America are brainwashed by Christianity. They are so open and willing to accept what they’re told that they don’t question things. And by the time they think to question them, it’s too late. Luckily, I have a support system that has allowed me to question things and finally find the answers that I was looking for. I will not believe in a god who condones rape and murder (to name a few). I would rather believe in the universe or whatever else doesn’t kill people in the name of religion. I am now an Atheist. This is my first time saying it (typing it) and it is rather empowering.

On a side note, my father recently found out that his great grandfather was black.