Sam Harris.org Reader Forum

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Hi All,

Many of you have probably seen these already, but for those who have not you might be interested in checking out The Atheism Tapes, by Jonathan Miller.  They are available on netflix instant view and include interviews with Colin McGinn, Richard Dawkins, Dan Dennett and some other notable figures in the skeptic community.

Good viewing!

...Unfortunately religious people don’t know what ‘physics’ is. Ba-boom.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

How can any sane muslim ‘defend’ their holy book, given the immense evidence against the ‘goodness’ of the God, of his teachings, and his methods?

This blogger (http://blog.proudislam.com/2011/03/sam-harriss-version-of-quran.html) suggests the only way anyone can critique Islam is by reading it in Arabic.  And he is not alone.  At least 3 muslim friends of mine are taking weekend classes in Arabic so they can read the holy book in Arabic, and not the translated versions that they read now.

Really?  So all we need now is one Arabic speaking guy spilling the beans?

I consider this a deeply thought-out book that anticipated and spelled out its trivial criticisms that Sam has since responded to for some reason. I wouldn’t bother waffling with Blackford et al, I would answer the criticism that the moral problems are not solvable in principle, which I don’t think they are. Anyone can have a go now, with fabricated data. Some worked examples would settle it.

However, if you accept his presuppositions, which I think one should, whether one ‘objectively’ should or not, he missed the solution in the final chapter. The monist neuroscientist knows we live in a virtual reality. If you don’t want to live in a virtual reality, then I don’t know what you mean, and neither do you. The solution is to have x virtual realities, where x is the number of conscious creatures.

This way, every conscious creature can achieve maximal well-being. Naturally the futile ‘suffering’ would be done by zombie minds. etc. I don’t think this needs a push as it will come by exaption anyway. But the whole book seemed to be building up to this correct solution and ended before the logic had been followed all the way.

Does anyone come across people who will categorically throw out your atheistic position and claim that regardless of what you say, “that still doesn’t change the truth”.  This is often spoken with a puffed-up chest, or written in such a way that the writer seems to have some special knowledge of what the truth is.  Truth about what, exactly?  The implication here is that Christians have some kind of hotline with God that atheists like myself pine for (I don’t) and could never have (don’t want it, thank you very much).

What is this “truth” they always speak of?  Because when I ask, they never tell me - they just tell me to “find Jesus”.

Thanks
-John

Hello All (not sure what the rules are here, do I need to start with a joke)?

Glad to be on this site.  I’ve been a non-believer for several years now and often come across situations where I will be lambasted by the usual stuff - you know, the “you just don’t understand God” thing, or “you need to show more respect”.

Here is a post I saw on one website:

“I’ve read your posts. You say you’ve done this and that, but really, you end up going with these atheists that know nothing and discount the awesomeness of God on those beliefs. How sad.
Btw… no holy roller here. I just know God, plain and simple. I don’t preach to you or condemn you. I just know you could know God if you would seek him out without the interference you are allowing in your life as evidenced by your posts.
Don’t confuse knowing God with churches, priests, and what have you. It’s your journey alone. You have to find the way by yourself. All these distractions by atheists and their videos will keep you from knowing what the truth is. It truly is sad to lose out on what you really could have in life.”

Personally, I find this kind of dialogue infuriating, which is often why, when atheists and Christians collide on some websites, there’s a lot of verbal bloodshed and, admittedly, the atheists are usually the ones doing the most bloodletting.  But I understand why we do it - it’s because we cannot imagine how normal, modern, thinking people can make statements like this with a straight face.  Seriously now - does ANYONE really believe that God actually TALKS to people?  Don’t these people appear delusional?  Don’t we have a word for people who hear voices in their heads?  Oh, but NOOOO….you have to respect that.  It’s almost a non sequitor to call it a “debate”.  A TRUE debate is an exchange of ideas; talking to a religious person results in the atheist doing all the heavy thinking and the Christian falling back on the “God said it” dogma.

How does one deal with this?

Thanks all.

http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page=ThreadView&thread_id=35166

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/393383-armageddon-open-letter-marc-emery.html

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/393383-armageddon-open-letter-marc-emery.html

http://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/360125-new-growers-needed-grow-lab.html

http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page=ThreadView&thread_id=35166

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/393383-armageddon-open-letter-marc-emery.html

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/393383-armageddon-open-letter-marc-emery.html

http://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/360125-new-growers-needed-grow-lab.html

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I’m impressed by how intelligent and polite the conversations are in this forum.  I wish I could mark some of the posts people have made so that I can refer back to them later.  It would be nice to be able to star posts or something and create a link to them on some list in the control panel.  Is there already a way to do that?

I’m impressed by how intelligent and polite the conversations are in this forum.  I wish I could mark some of the posts people have made so that I can refer back to them later.  It would be nice to be able to star posts or something and create a link to them on some list in the control panel.  Is there already a way to do that?